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<<again, they made a big point that this is universal, but all of their applications are local.

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\n

We then ensured that all the APEST vocations were well represented on the leadership team, with at least one person representing each of the APEST types.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 2924-2925). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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<<gem>> if APEST is so pivotal, why is there only 1 one passage on it,?  even conceptually, you don't see that concept throught out NT.

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1 cor 12:28+ is close, but goes on to add other gifts.

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Not all are apostles, are they?

\n

 

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they have mainlined this into local church, rather than supra church.

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apest is not local church leadership

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deceiving book, or rather difficult to critique because much of it so right on.  brilliantly so.  but that shouldn't suck us into accepting that which is not built on biblical data/

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key words...pheroosis. etc....

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gifts in eph is not  charisma

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to each was given grace.

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Note: observation \"errors\" doesn't necessarily refute his position, b ut the more there are , the less solid is their conclusion

\n

 

\n

 in Acts, paul didn't call the apest team

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Acts 20:17 ¶ From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called to him the elders of the church.
 (Act 20:17 NAU)

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Acts 20 writtne during 3rd viaje...concurrent with 1 cor...so even if if it is pre-ephesians, with full APEST develoment, even with APT, we see no mention of any of them.

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Cf Act 15.

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No where does Paul addressing local churches refer to their apostles (well, maybe prophets, 1 cor 14), certainly not shepherds (except for eph 4:11)...james refers to teachers

\n

 None of the APEST terms comes to the forefront when Paul is addressing local churchs.

\n

H&C don't do a good job of dealing with elders. and separating them from apest

\n

 

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\n

 

\n

 

\n

 

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1398] <<Jesus is APEST, but he is also more...priest, king..servant (appears as a ??)

\n

 

\n

<<the infinite Christ reduced to 5?

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1416] <<does he deal with other gifts?

\n

<<we are all priests

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1494-1496] fn 9. In relation to our use of the term vocation or callings, theologian Jack Deere states that apostleship is a calling, not a gift or an especially gifted or powerful person. See his Surprised by the Spirit (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Zondervan, 1993), pp. 242–243.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 1494-1496). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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1923-1931] The term shepherd is used throughout the Old Testament to categorize various types of leaders (kings and priests) and, significantly, that of Yahweh himself—he being the Shepherd of Israel. Along with its metaphorical quality, the concept of shepherd comes to us with a rich interpretive framework that can easily fund the imagination and provoke almost endless analogies and insight about leadership and followership. The oddity, though, is that while the word poimen (shepherd) is used eighteen times in the New Testament, only once does it describe the ministry function of Christians; rather, it refers mainly to the person and work of Jesus. Despite this strong restriction of the term, it has pretty much captured our thinking when it comes to church leadership and other organizational arrangements. This means that contrary to the APE types, which require us to reconstruct a sound comprehension of these ministries, we probably have to do a lot of deconstruction here to arrive at a biblical understanding. The catch-all nature of the term obscures the central functions of shepherd, especially considered in relation to the other roles.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 1923-1931). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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2688] one of the tasks of leadership is to negotiate the tension that arises naturally within communities and organizations.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Location 2688). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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2740] If the local church is operating on the APEST dynamic,

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Location 2740). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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2823-2865] I became increasingly convinced that every believer contains the full potential for the whole. Each believer is in a real sense a seed of an ecclesia, and an ecclesia is the seed of a movement. But the full potential is already fully contained in the seed. The same is true of any living cell. The DNA that codes the life of the whole organism is contained in every part, even though that particular cell might need access to only a tiny portion of the genetic information contained in the full DNA code. So, for instance, a kidney cell accesses only the genes it needs to be a kidney cell, but it contains the full genetic coding for brains, eyes, hands, and so on in the DNA resident in its nucleus. This turns out to be true for the body of Christ no less than it is true for organisms—and this is not surprising, since the Creator is the designer of both.

\n

So, for instance, if someone becomes a Christian, then even 10 percent of the 120 meaningful relationships in his life, when redeemed in Christ, can legitimately constitute an ecclesia as the Bible defines it. In other words, this person is an ecclesia-in-the-making. In fact, phenomenologically speaking, God could use him to start a whole movement, and that church in turn could start other churches in a pay-it-forward style of movement. In fact, this is what God has done in the Bible and throughout history. The conversions of Paul, St. Patrick, Sadhu Singh, and countless other saints generated entire movements. Each part carries the potential for the whole, including the full coding of APEST.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 2830-2835). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 2823-2829). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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1219-1220] These gifts are clearly and unequivocally stated as being in the fivefold expressions of apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd, and teacher;

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 1219-1220). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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1341-1342] These are given, once and for all

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 1341-1342). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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2887-2888] 5. And considering that each one of us contains all five gives each of us access to a rich repertoire of potential intelligence.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 2887-2888). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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3469] very Yankee diagram

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3691-3693] In modern equivalents of apostolic ministry in Western contexts, the Pauline is called to extend and establish Christianity onto new ground in the West, while the Petrine is called to help reframe the nature of Western Christianity itself. The one form is thus primarily pioneering and cross-cultural and the other innovative and intracultural.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 3691-3693). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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4195-4208Lawrence Miller’s typology of leadership is especially useful in pointing to the correlation of life cycles and leadership roles:3

\n


Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 4195-4208). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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5492-5505] The challenge is to bring the two “texts” of (biblical) text and (cultural) context into dynamic relationship so that the gospel can be transferred meaningfully into the culture. Apostles, in whatever context, must be specialists in culture and gospel, anthropology and atonement. New Testament scholars Joel Green and Mark Baker describe how Paul contextualized the gospel in various locales:

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As he moves from community to community, Paul weaves a theological language that moves between the story of Israel as this is reflected in and interpreted by the advent of Christ, on the one hand, and the exigencies and settings of his audiences on the other. In this way, language takes shape within an ongoing conversation, as language is adopted and adapted that both fits the particular circumstances to which Paul addresses himself and toils to reconfigure experienced reality so that it accounts more fully for what God has done in Christ. This means that Paul can use one set of metaphors with the Colossians, another with the Galatians, while remaining true to the gospel and bearing witness to the same actuality . . . he throws himself into the difficult but crucial task of serving as a midwife to a conversion of worldview.21


Missiologist Dean Flemming also asserts that contextualization goes beyond crafting a culturally relevant message. It involves “the dynamic and comprehensive process by which the gospel is incarnated within a concrete, historical or cultural situation.”22

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For instance, IDEO, arguably America’s best design firm, maintains that all innovation starts with a serious commitment to observe without recourse to solving the problem; it therefore requires a primary posture of learning and listening. Innovation then moves into a phase of interpreting the data, gleaning insights, discerning opportunities, synthesizing the information, and deciphering the culture codes to find doorways and keys to the culture (or market, depending on context.) These in turn lead directly to the dynamic process of ideation, prototyping a model, formally researching, and deciding on an approach. The final phase involves testing and applying the idea or product: refining, optimizing, and readjusting until it is optimized.23

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 5514-5519). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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5786-5788] In Jesus’s kingdom, everyone gets to play—even hookers, dodgy businessmen, and political insurgents—hardly what we would normally consider to be the A-Team, the cream of the leadership crop. Therefore, anything blocking the God-given agency of each disciple must ultimately derive from the Evil One.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 5786-5788). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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<<Mobilización Total...Total Mobilization/.... ACT Strategy

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6954-6956] Author and politician Upton Sinclair once said, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”4

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4. U. Sinclair, I, Candidate for Governor: And How I Got Licked (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1935, repr. 1994), p. 109.

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2913-2919] The most effective way to engage the full power of APEST in a local church or organization is to embed it into the very life of the church. The Ephesians 4 callings include the whole people of God—that is, every disciple rather than just leaders. The aim is to ensure that the whole church and culture has access to the vocations given to them by Christ and are permitted and encouraged to grow in them. The aim is to help everyone discover their vocational energies and motivations by discovering their base and then entering into phases where they are exposed to one of the other four ministries. This helps ensure a clear formation process of discipleship all the way through to senior levels of leadership—all through APEST thinking. In the church I (Alan) was leading in the early 2000s, we did it as shown in Figure 4.6.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 2913-2919). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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2998]

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3210-3219] As one of the five ascension ministries from Ephesians 4, apostles give believers a unique involvement in the reign of Christ.

Furthermore, the New Testament clearly teaches the rather radical notion that every believer is uniquely gifted for ministry. The New Testament knows nothing of a separate class of believers who are specially endowed with the Spirit to minister. Ministry flows out of gifting, and because God has distributed these gifts to everyone in the body, ministry is the responsibility and privilege of every member of the community.3

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4235-4239] It is also clear from all the studies that the more equilibrium-seeking types (shepherds and teachers) will tend to eventually take over and proceed to exile the more disequilibrium-seeking types (apostles, evangelists, and prophets). It is interesting that Miller uses the term crucifies in this regard.5 We are not sure if he is being deliberate here, but it is not too hard to see that the same impulses for self-preservation and control stimulated the Crucifixion of Jesus, the archetypal apostle-prophet.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 4235-4239). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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7120-7123] Our point in outlining this “movement-to-museum” aspect of church history is to show how the foundational, pioneering, translocal, and custodial leadership of the apostolic ministry was eventually eclipsed by the more local, increasingly maintenance-oriented leadership roles of bishops, elders, and deacons.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 7120-7123). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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7215-7216] We do not suggest removing these ST influences, but simply complementing and supplementing them with more generative forms.

Hirsch, Alan; Catchim, Tim (2012-01-06). The Permanent Revolution: Apostolic Imagination and Practice for the 21st Century Church (Jossey-Bass Leadership Network Series) (Kindle Locations 7215-7216). Wiley. Kindle Edition.

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chapters 9 & 10] <<Can others do what you do?

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People bent on meeting needs ofothers become magnets.

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Look for people who can't show up

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Get up and make your bed!

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